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"Free Will vs. Predestination"

Anonymous asked:

What can you say to people who believe in freewill,
please be very specific. I have talked to people in the past and they say that
there is scripture that supports both freewill and predestination, I have also
shown scripture that literally states that God chooses us, what verses do they
have to support freewill?

Also, my teacher has said that everybody is
predestined by God and that Jesus died for everybody, but it is our
responsibility to accept him into our hearts. What can I say to them?

Thanks for the great questions.

We have a number of things that are getting confused here, so I'll try to define some terms and positions on the issues first.

The disagreement between Reformed (Calvinist) and non-Reformed (Arminian or non-Calvinist) is not whether man has free will. We all agree that man has free will. The disagreement comes when we discuss the ability of man to choose God, and the ultimate authority in the salvation of man. Is man's free will the ultimate authority? Do we have a God who wants to save but is unable? Is the will of God thwarted at every turn by the almighty free will of man? I guess you can see which side of this issue I come down on.

Free Will--I am free to fly like a bird. Unfortunately, I am unable to do so. I do not have the capacity. Similarly, a person who is dead in sin does not have the capacity (nor the desire) to "choose Christ."

ESV Colossians 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Would you consider the ability to exercise saving faith a good thing?

ESV Romans 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.

Did you notice the use of the word ability? Speaking of ability... notice how this verses addresses it:

ESV John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

We've so often heard the term draws described as a wooing or attracting. It's simply not the case. This Greek word helko means to drag or haul. The other four places it appears in the NT are pretty telling:

ESV John 18:10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant and cut off his right ear. (The servant's name was Malchus.)

ESV Acts 21:30 Then all the city was stirred up, and the people ran together. They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple, and at once the gates were shut.

ESV John 21:6 He said to them, "Cast the net on the right side of the boat, and you will find some." So they cast it, and now they were not able to haul it in, because of the quantity of fish.

ESV James 2:6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you, and the ones who drag you into court?

Salvation is a work of God and God alone.

Verses to support free will? By far the most popular is:

ESV Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!

The important things to note about this Scripture is that it comes in the middle of the strongest denunciation of the Jewish religious leaders to be found in Scripture. The term Jerusalem here is a reference to those leaders (rather than individual Jews), it was those leaders who killed the prophets, etc., and it is those leaders who are resisting. Also notice it is the children of Jerusalem that God is gathering. (Yes, people resist God all the time... another misunderstanding of Reformed theology).

Free Will and Irresistible Grace
God's electing grace is irresistible the way the first breath of life is irresistible. The claim that God would never violate someones free will is pure human tradition. While those who disagree make this out to be a violation of free will, it is actually a changing of the will. Think carefully about this point because it is important. Does God drag people kicking and screaming into His kingdom against their will? If you understand the distinction I just made, you will say "no, He graciously changes their will." Let's face it, this is not a bad thing. Only a deeply rooted commitment to free-will-ism would see this as a bad thing. God is giving spiritual life to the spiritually dead! God is sovereign over the will of man.

How many times did God harden Pharaoh's heart? [Exodus ch7 to ch11 repeatedly]
What happened to Lydia here?

ESV Acts 16:14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

Finally on this topic... ask you friend if they pray for the salvation of people. If you believe in the supremecy man's free will, does it make sense to do so? Doesn't that equate to asking God to violate their free will?

Now--about your teacher.

I can only hope that you misunderstood your teacher's position. To claim that everybody is predestined or to claim that Jesus died for everyone is to take a universalist view (that everyone is saved). [1 Tim 2:4-6 and 2 Pet 3:9 always come up here. Joel Barnes does a great job of summarizing the responses to these verses from James White's The Potter's Freedom right here--scroll to the bottom]

ESV Romans 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

These are completed works. Jesus actually accomplished salvation for the elect on the cross. When he said "it is finished" he didn't mean "I've done all I can, now it's up to you."

On the last point I agree with your teacher. We do have a responsibility to respond to the gospel... to obey the command to all men everywhere to repent. This is another shocker to non-Calvinists because they think we don't believe in human responsibility. The Bible teaches both the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man. This has some philosophical difficulties. Since it violates man's sense of fairness that God would require something of someone that he can't possibly do (alone)...we come to a three way fork in the road.
* We can decide that everybody must be able to respond since God commanded it--compromise God's sovereignty (Arminian)
* We can decide that man has no choice or responsibility in the matter--compromise the responsibility of man (Hyper-Calvinist)
* We can accept the Word of God for what it says and deal with the philosophical difficulty (see the compatibilism link at monergism.com).

Another helpful note:
"whosoever verses" -- Amen! These speak to who will, not who can. Always just say amen and "all those things are true about those who will be saved, now let's talk about who they are... those drawn by the Father." (ability verse)

I need to get on to other things, but if you have follow up questions we'll keep the conversation going.

Rom1:11-32-Q3 "Fruit Inspector"


We mentioned a contrast between the fruits of suppressors of truth and the fruits of the Spirit. We also see that the Holy Spirit is referred to several times as the Spirit of Truth. Note especially when the Holy Spirit is promised to believers:

ESV John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

ESV John 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

3. Can you identify opposites? Does it become clear that they are opposites?

ESV Romans 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

ESV Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Rom1:1-32-Q2 "General & Special Revelation on Homosexuality"

ESV Romans 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

There is a push to mainstream homosexuality in many denominations today (some already have). The primary argument as that modern science has demonstrated that homosexuality is normal and just an alternative lifestyle. This means that general revelation legitimizes homosexuality.

2. Look closely at vs. 26-27 and answer the following.

• What does special revelation (God’s Word) say about homosexuality? (Also see Lev 18:22 provided below.)

• What does special revelation say about general revelation (what we observe in nature) in this case?

• When general revelation and special revelation seem to be in conflict, which has clear authority?

More special revelation:

ESV Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Look here for more information on General and Special Revelation.

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Rom1:11-32-Q1 "Ashamed of the Gospel?" - Self Examination

ESV Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you- 12 that is, that we may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith, both yours and mine. 13 I want you to know, brothers, that I have often intended to come to you (but thus far have been prevented), in order that I may reap some harvest among you as well as among the rest of the Gentiles. 14 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. 15 So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."

1. In verse 15 Paul is eager to preach the gospel to believers in Rome. It is not just the teaching of where salvation can be found (for unbelievers) but is, as we studied in the lesson, the revealed truth about God.

Self-examination moment:

o Are you ashamed of the gospel?

o Do you act like it?



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Student Question -- "Why don't Jews believe in the New Testament?"

This is a huge question that I can only touch upon here. The short answer is that the physical descendants of Abraham (through Isaac) a.k.a. the Jews are not corporately part of the believing community by God's sovereign decree.

ESV Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe.

Notice how it was an act of God, yet due to their unbelief. It's a theological concept known as compatibilism--click the word for more information.

There is no need to despair because God is drawing his elect (fulfilled Israel) from all nations, including the Jews. We will be covering a lot of this as we progress through the book of Romans.

I've written more on this here: Who is the Israel of God?

Here is a great page full of information about Israel and Judaism.

Student Question -- "How is Christianity similar to communism"

CONTEXT: This question was prompted by some discussions during class.

Some early Christians lived communally (no personal/private property):

ESV Acts 4:32 Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common.

This is far from a command for us to do so. A key here is that this was done voluntarily out of changed hearts and the sacrificial love that resulted from these changes.

Governmental communism is much different and seriously flawed. Though it looks good on paper ("from each according to his ability, to each according to his need...") it is based on a false understanding of the nature of man. The Fall. If man were basically good, communism would actually work. Since fallen man is basically greedy and selfish, he will not work unless he gets something out of it for himself. The welfare system reveals this as well... (once people figure out they can get money without working... they are in no hurry to start working again...).

Scott Adams (of Dilbert Comic fame) demonstrates an understanding of fallen man. The Life Will Not Be Like Star Trek appendix to his book The Dilbert Future says this about what he'd do with a transporter:

If I could beam things from one place to another, I'd never leave the house. I'd sit in a big comfy chair and just start beaming groceries, stereo equipment, cheerleaders, and anything else I wanted right into my house. I'm fairly certain I would abuse this power. If anybody came to arrest me, I'd beam them into space. If I wanted some paintings for my walls, I'd beam the contents of the Louvre over to my place, pick out the good stuff, and beam the rest into my neighbor's garage.

If I were watching the news on television and didn't like what I heard, I would beam the anchorman into my living room during the commercial break, give him a vicious wedgie, and beam him back before anybody noticed. I'd never worry about 'keeping up with the Joneses,' because as soon as they got something nice, it would disappear right out of their hands. My neighbors would have to use milk crates for furniture. And that's only after I had all the milk crates I would ever need for the rest of my life. There's only one thing that could keep me from spending all my time wreaking havoc with the transporter: the holodeck.

Student Question -- "Do you think it is wrong for a Christian to gamble for fun and not out of greed (especially if they can budget themselves well)?"

I believe this is another matter of Christian liberty. There are no explicit prohibitions against gambling in Scripture. I do know that gambling can be very addictive, so one must be very careful.

Since you asked my opinion, I have to wonder about the entertainment value of many forms of gambling, and the wisdom of it. Playing the lottery is just plain foolish; staring at a slot machine in a smoke filled casino sounds as fun as root canal. On the other hand, many years ago I used to go to the dog race tracks with my family (with my parents). We would study the dog sheets before each race and put down a whopping $2 bet on the dog we liked "to show" (we won something if he came in first, second, or third... but just a little). We would usually come pretty close to breaking even... and we had a lot of fun.

Student Question -- "What is your opinion on what a Christian should do when he/she runs into someone else who thinks they have the Absolute Truth?"

Good question, and the answer might surprise you.

1) Listen to understand. When the person sees that you have a real interest in what they have to say, you will establish a level of trust and good will that will come in as you start to offer alternatives.

2) Ask questions. The Columbo Tactic (very short but helpful article on it here) gives you the types of questions to ask. The article only covers Columbo type one ("what do you mean by that?") and two ("how did you come to that conclusion?"), the third type is used when you see a flaw in their logic that leads to an absurd conclusion (reductio) and can usually start with something like "have you considered ...?" Keep in mind, you can be very productive with the first two easier types of questions.

3) Don't be afraid to say "that's a good point" and "I never thought of that" (truthfully... not patronizing). Don't even be afraid to say "I don't know."

Get in a bind? Ask a question. Columbo rocks.

... so, do you consider yourself to be a good person? On what standard? ...

WARNING: Never ever ever allow this person to isolate you. Don't accept their word alone on the issue; you will encounter people who are very persuasive, manipulative, etc. You should also ask people more mature in the faith, do your research ... prepare for the next round.

Don't be afraid to learn something.

Student Question--"When speaking to a non-Christian, what's a good way to inform them about Christianity without making it sound like you are forcing it on them, or changing their beliefs?"

This is a great question that I believe many people have. I'll start and the end and work our way back.

First, it is important to be honest. You are trying to change their beliefs, so we shouldn't be trying to make it sound like you aren't. It doesn't mean you have to be rude about it, but I'd rather be seen as too frank than as trying to trick someone.

The "forcing it on them" perception can often be avoided by drawing lines in the right place. The person you are speaking to is a sinner, but so are you. If you come across as anything other than a humble recipient of God's saving grace who is offering the same good news to others, your witness will be hindered. It's also important to remember that even if you are humble and faithfully proclaim the gospel, conviction or rebellion in the sinner is still a possibility. The great news is that you are not responsible for this. You don't save anyone; you are just a faithful mouthpiece, God changes the heart. Scripture says people are saved through preaching the gospel, not tricks, entertainment, flattery, etc.:

ESV 1 Corinthians 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

How? The Objective Gospel that we covered in class is helpful here. Of course you don't always have time/opportunity to do them in order, it's just a tool. It is easy to turn a conversation with a question like "... so, do you consider yourself to be a good person?"



I hope this is helpful.

Student Question--"Isn't everyone else chosen too?"

No. Actually, Scripture teaches that not only some, but most, are not chosen.

ESV Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

ESV Matthew 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Unless one believes that all people are ultimately saved (contrary to what the previous verses teach), the following verses also limit those who are called (elect/chosen) to those who are eventually saved. Obviously the election/predestination precedes the faith, it is realized at regeneration/conversion. Many attempt to claim that God looks through the corridors of time to see who will believe, then elects them. This is just another case of attempting to define out of existence a concept they are uncomfortable with (renders election/predestination, taught throughout the New Testament, meaningless).

ESV Romans 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Here is an excellent page of mp3 audio, articles, sermons, etc. on the topic of election. We'll be talking much more about these issues as we progress through Romans... Chapter 9 here we come! (eventually).

Rom1:1-15 Q9-10 "Open and Closed Doors"

ESV Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you 10 always in my prayers, asking that somehow by God's will I may now at last succeed in coming to you.

9. People often speak of "open and closed doors" for ministry. Was this how Paul functioned? (Was he passively waiting for God to open a door?)

ESV Acts 16:27 When the jailer woke and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. 28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, "Do not harm yourself, for we are all here."

10. Does Paul always go through open doors?



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Rom1:1-15 Q6-8: "Thankfulness"

ESV Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you 10 always in my prayers, asking that somehow by God's will I may now at last succeed in coming to you.

6. What we are thankful for and what brings us joy (or despair) says a lot about us. Do you take joy in the faith of others?



7. How can we (in good conscience) tell people who are suffering or miserable that they should be thankful?




8. Grumbling and complaining are a sin against God suggesting we deserve better, He has not provided sufficiently for us, ... How will expressing thanks to God regularly affect our tendency to grumble and complain?

Rom1:1-15 Q4-5 "Called to be Saints"

ESV Romans 1:1-7--Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ, 7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

According to verse 7 the Romans (and we fellow gentiles by extension) are “loved by God and called to be saints”. It implies we are specifically called by God in His love to be His own. If we begin to think of ourselves this way:

4. How will that affect how you spend your time and where you focus your energy and effort?


5. How will that affect what you choose to do with your body? (Was your body created for sexual immorality or eventual resurrection and exaltation?)

Rom1:1-15 Q1-3 "Professor's Advice"

J. Ligon Duncan’s Testimony in his sermon on this topic:

We live in a day and age where people are uncomfortable with authority and with truth. Many of you who are students, and many of you who are not have heard even recently someone say to you, as I once had a Russian history professor say to me, something that goes like this. We were studying the Soviet Revolution, and he said to us, "The Bolsheviks are a lot like Christians. They think they’ve found truth with a capital T." And then he stopped to give us some pastoral advice about this. He said, "If you ever run into anybody who believes in truth with a capital T, you run in the opposite direction as fast as you can." You see the world is very uncomfortable with absolute truth claims because the world is afraid that that’s going to restrict its freedom to do as it pleases. [Duncan]

1. In what ways do you agree with the professor? Or what may be his reasoning for making a statement like this? Is there a measure of wisdom in it?



2. Should we accept Scripture as authoritative? Why? How do we reconcile this with the wisdom of the professor?



3. Where’d the prof go wrong? What’s the difference between Christians and communists?


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